Influential water expert Niki Roach on the global water challenge and how we can act.
UN Sustainable Development Goal Number 6 - Clean Water & Sanitation: Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all.
Episode 1 of 'The 17' gives a great overview of the scale of challenge around the world when it comes to water and sanitation, and what we can all do to help. Did you know that over 85% of the world's wetlands have been lost? Or that over 700 million people live in countries with high or critical levels of water stress. But water isn't just a problem for people in other countries. Remember recent droughts, empty reservoirs and hosepipe bans here in the UK? What about the much publicised and criticised sewage releases into seas and rivers due to storm overflows? Sustainable clean water and sanitation is a global problem felt locally. We all need to understand the situation and take action in our own lives to make a difference.
An influential expert with a big picture view
Niki Roach knows her water. A former President of CIWEM (the Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management), she hosts the UK's No.1 Earth Sciences podcast 'Planet Possible' and gets to speak to experts at the cutting edge of water, climate and environmental issues around the world. Plus, she's backing her insights with action, by building an eco home for her family that will harvest rainwater to use for toilets and the washing machine. In this episode Niki shares her thoughts and experiences, plus she comments on the global progress made at the recent COPS for climate and biodiversity. Niki presents her wish list for actions at a global, national, regional and individual level that would help us move toward meeting UN Sustainable Development Goal Number 6 - clean water & sanitation for all.
Niki wants everyone to value water and she challenges governments, regions and businesses to take action now to make it easy for everyone to make the kind of positive choices that will make a difference:
"It shouldn't be harder, it shouldn't be more expensive, it shouldn't be complicated to make a good choice for the planet." - Niki Roach.
Each episode of 'The 17' ends with our influential expert guest giving us all their Stop/Start - one thing we can all stop doing and one thing we can all start doing right now to help move the planet toward meeting the UN Sustainable Development goal that is the theme of that episode.
Niki's clean water and sanitation 'Stop' relates to our toilets. Do you know the 3 things that should be the ONLY 3 things that ever go down there? And the 'Start' is a minimal effort DIY project based on insights from industry leading flood management theory.
Yorkshire's ambition to lead on Sustainability
Both guest Niki Roach and host Kate Hutchinson live in Yorkshire and they sense that the county is keen to take pride in being a leading regional voice on sustainability. Niki describes the innovative work being done by the 'Living With Water' project in Hull and Kate highlights the positive reaction that the announcement of Yorkshire Sustainability Week has received, especially from Leeds Climate Commission.
The first ever Yorkshire Sustainability Week takes place this coming July and will have an in-person conference as its centrepiece featuring keynote speakers such as Greenpeace's Areeba Hamid. Go to www.yorkshiresustainabilityweek.com to find out more and get your tickets.
Be informed, take action and spread the word
'The 17' is a podcast dedicated to sustainability. It is structured around the UN’s 17 Sustainable Development goals. They represent, in essence, a plan to save the planet. We all need to know what they are, take reasonable positive actions in our own lives to help... and spread the word.
Keep listening to 'The 17' to make sure you are informed and hear from influential experts what actions to take. A new episode drops every month - on the 17th of course - and each episode is themed around a different one of the 17 UN Sustainable Development goals. Listen every month, subscribe, leave reviews and tell your friends.
Resources
Listen to the UK's Number 1 Earth Sciences podcast, 'Planet Possible' that Niki Roach hosts: www.planetpossible.eco
Discover more about the UN's 17 Sustainable Development Goals: https://sdgs.un.org/goals
Find out more about Yorkshire Sustainability Week and book your tickets to the conference: www.yorkshiresustainabilityweek.com
Welcome to the 17. This is a podcast dedicated to sustainability. It's structured around the UN's 17 sustainable development goals. They represent, in essence, a plan to save the planet. I'm Kate Hutchinson and I'm the founder of Yorkshire Sustainability Week. My vision is to help the UK's regions play their part in delivering a sustainable future.
Each episode of the is themed around a different one of the UN sustainable development goals. That's why it's called the 17. A new episode drops every month on the 17th. Each episode I'll be joined by a great guest who has real expertise and influence related to one of those UN sustainable development goals.
We will try and explain to you why the goal is important, what the current situation is, and what actions we can take at an individual, regional, and even global. To make progress.
It's episode one and we're diving straight in and tackling Goal number six, which is clean water and sanitation, ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all. My guest is uniquely positioned to tackle this subject from all kinds of levels. Professionally. She's a fellow and former president of the Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management.
In terms of influence, she's the host of the number one Earth Sciences podcast in the UK planet Possible and personally, she's in the middle of building a house for her family that will be harvesting rainwater for its plumbing. This woman knows her water is Nikki Roach. Hi Kate. Hi Nikki. Welcome to the 17th.
Hi, Kate. Thank you very much for having me. That's quite an intro. Nikki, tell me how passionate you are about water and the role it's played in your life. I mean, I'm, I'm geeky, passionate about it and unapologetically so these days really. So yeah, right from, actually, I think when I reflect on it, it all began early teens.
Mom and dad used to take us to the Elon Valley in, in Wales, where Birmingham gets its water from controversially. And I was just fascinated by seeing dams, by just understanding how it all worked really. And that's probably when I began to get interested in water. I did geography at university and spent lots of time in and around rivers and just, I, I was really interested by the way that the environment, And the built environment and the natural environment kind of connect really and just understanding the landscape.
So always loved it. Then spent the last 20 plus years working in the water sector or around the water sector in the uk. I went to Burkina Faso in 2006 to see the work of water aid. So seeing kind of a little bit of the work of, of water, if you like, outside of the UK context. Yeah, as you mentioned, slightly bonkers project that has occupied my brain for the last two years.
We're trying to build this low water footprint, low carbon house. So yeah, I like water. It's better to say. Tell me a bit more about the house, because I'm really, really interested in this and I'm sure a lot of people are. I mean, it would've been easy to just stay where we were. We were very happy, but we just had this little, this little itch to scratch really, just to see what was possible It, it is definitely not a grand design.
We wanted to do something like modest and achievable, but explore what was possible in a suburban location. Building a kind of eco home and just testing the boundaries, really knowing that we probably know a little bit more than the average person perhaps in terms of water. So we're doing a mix of things.
We are, as you said, we're putting in rainwater harvesting, so our toilets and our washing machine will all flush with rainwater that will collect off the roof. And then we've got a few of the technologies that are connecting as well, trying to do low water and low carbon. Because the big thing for me, right, is that when you talk about eco homes, people think about energy and we're doing energy stuff, you know, air source and solar panels and M V H R, which is heat recovery.
But when I went and talked to architects and passive house designers about water, They all said, don't worry about water. It's not that important. But 6% of our carbon emissions in the UK come from heating water in the home. 6%. Yes. It's massive, isn't it? So water is important, and we use a pharmaceutical quality product for.
Flushing our toilet, watering our gardens, washing our cars. It just seems crazy to me. So it was really important. Of course, we did the energy stuff. That kind of goes without saying, but we wanted to put water into the mix because I do think it's just not part of the dialogue yet, and it needs to be. You did ask.
No, no. That's why I asked because I completely agree with you because you're absolutely spot on. Every time I think of, so like our dream is also to one day build an eco home. Mm-hmm. And I have to be honest, we've completely been focused on the energy. Yeah. And not on how we're gonna, you know, harvest water.
What can we do to utilize the water source that we've got coming from rainwater, et cetera. So I think it's very interesting when people think about the future and the way that we're gonna build our homes, et cetera, to have to factor in all of those things. Well, I mean, it's great. That's part of what we're trying to do.
We've got a little Instagram account, certainly not to become Instagram influencers. More just to be able to kind of evangelize about, look, this is possible, but also it's not that easy. Yes. And, and part of what I'm trying to show is that it is a bit tricky and I don't think it should be. So how do we just have more conversations about it to make it easier for people so that they, if they decide they want to just tread a bit more lightly, be that building a house or just making minor changes to their existing house.
Then how do we just make those minor changes that can make a big difference? So that's the stuff that we're trying to talk about and share as much as possible. So you've worked in the water industry, you've touched on that very, very gently. You've been president of a chartered institution whose members are experts in the water and environmental management.
You've spoken with people working within water across the world on planet possible, and now you're obviously changing the way you're living in order to, to create this sustainable house that's focused around water. How have all of these different angles changed your understanding of it? I mean, that's a, that's a big question and it's constantly evolving.
I think the first thing I would say is, I do not in any way think I've got all the answers. So the joy of planet possible, and I always say this is, it's like the best professional development going for me. Like I get to talk to all these amazing experts and I'm sure as your wonderful podcast starts to grow, you'll find exactly the same.
You learn all sorts, like on a global level. What it's made me realize, we've talked, we've had some great guests, so we had Tripti Ray who is the program director for water aid in Nepal. Really interesting conversation about how actually when Covid hit over, The hand washing message was really straightforward to get out because they were already having conversations about the importance of hand washing and hygiene.
So actually just talking about it for Covid was no different to normal, really interesting conversations with some of the guys in New Zealand about a concept called Taana Ottowa, which basically means putting the health of the river first. So that's enshrined in their laws in New Zealand. So when they think about building, when they think about development, They have to think about what's this gonna do for the health of the river before anything else with, with that view that the health of the waterways is life sustaining for everything else.
So I guess for me, I mean one of the things the pod's done, certainly in having these conversations is reminded me that we definitely don't have all the answers in the UK either, and lifting our eyes up and listening. To what others are doing globally. And then, you know, stealing with pride, those bits of best practice and thinking what could that mean for our sector?
So that might mean the future of our, our sanitation in the UK might not be using water. You know, we use a pharmaceutical quality product to flush our toilet well. Maybe that isn't the best solution for that. That, you know, just thinking a bit, a bit more differently and, and learning from others and making us really question the decisions that we take in the UK and think, is this the most sustainable long-term solution?
So that's, I guess, globally I'm loving just kind of hearing all of these ideas and then reflecting on what that might mean for the UK context. Yeah, definitely. I think that's really, really interesting, like you say about that. Um, you know, the culture that you were describing, the Mai culture where they're focused on what is best for the river for.
Our country would so benefit from taking this perspective of what's the best thing for nature before we make a move here. Yeah. And I do think that there's a change coming. You know, I'm noticing it myself in the way that we are living. We're noticing more about what we're using, how we're using it, et cetera, and trying to be.
More efficient in every single way possible, and I'm sure everybody's doing the same. I guess just to build on that, for me, the most in interesting thing is the, is the people that are not having these conversations, right? So I'm doing quite an extreme thing and I do recognize that. And actually economically, it's not a very sensible thing.
Rainwater harvesting, for example. Does not pay back financially. I couldn't in good faith recommend rain harvesting at the moment to the majority of people. Right? I would love that to be different and there's lots of things and we can maybe get into it that would need to change to make that work. But the people that are just on the cusp of thinking about these things or even not even listening, those that really exciting conversations to have.
So there'll be some people that will always wanna make the right environmental decision and that is amazing. How do we reach the people that are not interested and how do we reduce the inert? So even if you're not interested, you'll still make a better decision. And then that comes down to maybe better product design, a better price point.
Yeah, more accessibility of the product. It shouldn't be harder, it shouldn't be more expensive. It shouldn't be more complicated to make a good choice for the planet, but at the moment, That's kind of where we are, I think, really. So how do we have those other conversations? That's the really interesting stuff I think.
Yeah, definitely. I completely agree with you and I think one of the things that's really interesting to me at the moment is I read something last week about how we're now in the position where the energy that we get from solar panels and the energy that we get from wind is actually cheaper than the energy that we get from coal mines.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Fossil fuels exactly that, you know? And it's actually cheaper now for us to not use fossil fuels, which is really, really interesting, isn't it? But we're not set up as a country for things like electric cars, you know? So the electric car movement is a great example of something that's really, really brilliant for the future, but we're not set up.
Yeah. So what can we do? It's, you're absolutely right, Nikki. It's what can we do to actually create the infrastructure? So you've talked globally. Let's talk about within the uk, what's happening within the UK and what could we be doing better? Well, I mean there is quite a lot of activity, I think it's fair to say.
And what I see in the main are extremely passionate, extremely committed individuals who are focused on doing the right thing for customers in the environment. So it's really hard to see the sector under so much scrutiny at the moment. And it's a bit heartbreaking because I think the difficulty.
There's no real nuance in that message. So that's not me saying the water sector is perfect far from it. And I am delighted that, actually, you touched on it, I think where you implied anyway, there's a change coming. Things like storm overflows, you know, sort of sewage pollution and rivers, BBC documentaries, you know, you'll get Gary Lineker tweeting about it.
Like that is now moving into a mainstream topic. If I'd said to you five years ago, should we have a a bit of a chat about storm overflow, Kate, I would imagine probably your face would've been quite understandably like blank. So I think, I think there is a move coming. The only thing that. Maybe breaks my heart a little bit is that there's no nuance in that conversation.
There are shades of gray in storm overflows. There is loads of activity happening, and also we've gotta think about. How much we value our environment and how much we value water. And that's not just a UK conversation. I think that is a, a global conversation and also a local conversation when it comes to things like bills for water companies.
If we think about the conversations we've had about electricity prices, Recently, and then I said to you, do you know what you pay? Do you know what you pay roughly for your water bill every year? So we pay 40 pounds a month. So the average bill in the UK is about 440 quid for water and sewage. And in the, in the raft of bills that we pay, it's not actually that significant.
And water companies are talking about maybe putting up bills, you know, acts 2050 by maybe a maximum of 65 pounds a year. So those are the sort of scales we're talking about. But quite understandably, in a, in a cost of living crisis environment, there's a challenge about putting those bills up. And that's where, for me, it comes back to, yeah, well, how much do we value the environment?
How much are we willing to pay? And also, how do we think differently about our, the way that we pay for water? So maybe we need to think about social tariffs. So actually maybe you get a certain amount of water completely free. Maybe we give everybody 50 liters a day, and on average we use between about 120 and 140, give or take.
Maybe we say everyone can have a certain amount for free and then we do something different with our pricing. For me, there's gotta be, gotta be equitable in the way that we do this, but also we've gotta value, yes, the water that we use. And I think what's starting to happen is the conversation, certainly a national context is coming round to, hang on.
We really value our environment. Okay, well, how much do we value it? How much are we willing to pay to maintain it or to improve it? And I think that's, that's kind of in the UK context where a lot of the conversation is at the moment. Yeah, I think that's really interesting and I think it's quite dangerous that we're on a set set fee.
Okay. Why is that? Every month? Because they, it doesn't actually make you think about how much you're using. So you are. Our electricity bill, for example, we're very conscious of how much we're using and what we're doing about it, et cetera. But because water is just one set fee, and it's the same set fee, however much you use every single month, the average Joe in a scenario like that isn't gonna watch.
Why would you, how much water. They're using because they're just paying. Exactly. There's no benefit to reducing their water. There's a lot of interesting conversation. This is the thing that really sparks me off. There's a lot of interesting conversation about how do we actually create an economy of the future.
And you touched on it a little bit there, Nikki, in that, you know, do we actually just change the way that you're paying for this? So that you are start to understand the value of it better. And I think there's a lot of very interesting conversations happening within the sustainability sphere that are around new economic models for the future.
And I, that's one of the things that really sparks me off is like, okay, well actually I don't think the one that we work under at the moment is future purpose. The economic model that we work under at the moment is one of focused on growth all the time. Growth, growth, growth, how do we buy more, how do we spend more, et cetera.
But it involves utilizing stuff that we do not need on a mass scale. Because I've watched, I've watched the documentaries like you do on Netflix and all the rest of it, and there are some really interesting statistics, and I'll share some of them with you in just a second, around water and the situation that we're gonna be in in only a few years.
And if people start to realize that, I think we all will acknowledge that we have to behave differently in the future and we'll all start to change our behaviors to suit that. And I think that's a really, really interesting conversation. So I'll, I'll share some stats around the current situation. 85% of the planet's wetlands have been lost.
3 billion people rely on water that is of an unknown quality. It's not being monitored. Over 700 million people live in countries with high or critical levels of water stress and without action. It's predicted that in 2030, which is seven years away, 1.9 billion people will lack basic hand hygiene.
They're quite terrifying. So how big is the challenge here, nicu? What are we, what are we dealing with? The short answer is it's really big, isn't it? And I think the other thing to add to that is that I think historically we might have heard some of those stats and thought, yeah, but not in the uk. But actually when you talk about the UK is hugely nature depleted.
So not just wetlands, but you know, we've lost all sorts of species. Biodiversity is in decline when we think about water. There's good parts of the UK that are already water stressed. We’re already thinking about potentially being back in drought situations for large sways of the UK this summer coming.
So water stress isn't a thing for a far flung sub-Saharan country. Water stress is here and in the UK right now. I mean, it's wonderful to hear. Isn't naturally in the sector talking like this, Kate. It really is. It fills me with a sense of hope. There's something about helping people understand it's not hopeless.
There's things we can do, but it is happening here and it's happening now. And the empty reservoirs that we saw across much of the country last year and the hose pipe bands that affected many of us. We'll probably come again and they'll keep coming. And we're gonna have warmer winters, wetter winters, longer drier summers.
The climate is obviously changing. That impact on water is going to be hugely different. So all of the challenges you've talked about are global, but they're very much local as well. And for me, The real opportunity is how do we start making the connection between these ginormous planetary scale scary challenges and alright, I turn the tele off and I go back to doing everything the same.
What does that mean for me? Does it mean I need to build an eco house, though, by all means, if you want to get in touch, and I'll happily tell you all my, you know, war stories, but, but what does that mean today? Tomorrow, next week. What does that mean for those people that have got kids? What are the conversations you have with your kids or if you're around children, and how do we get the next generation thinking differently?
So all those incremental gains, those tiny things that we can do that will make bigger differences. Yes. And then what can businesses do that have a bigger impact? It's at all of those levels that we've gotta be having those conversations. But you are. Oh, your passion filled me with Hope, Kate, which is wonderful.
Yeah, no, I think, I think the tide's turning. I can see it. It's exactly why we've moved into this work. You know, I, it was playing on my conscience that I needed to do my part, and so what I've decided to do is to flip my skill and focus on how can I support that industry, the sustainable industry to grow, to become stronger, to actually start having conversations together and not in silos, et cetera.
Because I think you're absolutely right. It's all about those little. Incremental increases that will just help everybody along the way. So I am very, I'm very much on the positive side of, of things I like. I'm an optimist. I look for, look for the positive as as you do too with planet possible. So tell me, what are some signs of hope with the people that you are speaking with?
I guess one of the big things when I reflected on this a little bit before our conversation is that there are unexpected people having these conversations now, and that really does fill with hope. Mm-hmm. Because actually we've just touched on it, haven't we? If we want to change things, we cannot keep talking to the same people who are already on board.
Like that is not gonna change very much at all. So we've got to bring new voices in. I think. When you see, you know, if you watch telly, we're seeing wild eyes, for example, that's people are talking about and that's, you know, R S P B. Lots of our NGOs are involved in that, so that's hitting a bigger crowd.
You see Matt Damon, for example, Hollywood Stars getting involved in programs like Brave Blue World that are films about water. Then you've got the kind of pressure groups that we talked about pushing for inland bathing, water designations, pushing for a reduction or a complete elimination in storm overflows.
So actually that's captured people's attention and I think not everything we hear is correct. And that, I guess, when you're inside the sector is really, it's like anything, you know, if you, if you work in an organization and you understand that and then you hear people criticizing it and what they're saying isn't completely correct, it's really hard to hear.
But actually it's much easier. To help have a conversation if people are interested then to deal with apathy? I think so. Actually we've got pressure groups that are interested in this topic that are forcing the narrative. And they don't get me wrong, they have pushed the water sector over the next five years.
The water sector is gonna spend more than it's ever spent by far trying to resolve the storm overflow issue. And that wouldn't have happened without those grassroots and those, those, you know, community organizations and charities pushing government and pushing the sector to do things. So I think for me, the hope is, There are unexpected voices and there are young voices, and that's the most hopeful thing.
I think for me, part of these conversations about water and our environment and that will push us on, that will catalyze change. So that for me, both, you know, within the uk but, but globally, I think is is where I'm most hopeful. I think. See that's really interesting. So from a UK perspective then let's, let's sort talk about those particular challenges.
So you've mentioned the storm overflows a couple of times. Talk to me about what's happening within that and how can we help from outside of the industry, what can we do to, to help the water industry get this? You know, make this next move and, and get it right. There are some really straightforward things we can do.
The first thing, our toilets are toilets. They are not bins. And one of the big issues that we have is that some people treat toilets like their bins. So they will put all sorts of stuff down a toilet, and you talk to anybody that's worked in wastewater or sewerage and they'll tell you all sorts of crazy stories about some of the things that they found at the, at the inlet to sewage works.
But on a practical level, you know, we've just seen a ban on plastic containing wet wipe. Which is great, but it doesn't really matter. Wet wipes are not flushable. Do not flush wet wipes down the toilet. Put them in a bin. It's Pee, paper, poo. That's it. That's the only three things that should ever go down a toilet.
And then when you extend that to drains, don't put fat down drains. Don't put grease stand drains because even if, even if you, uh, you'll mention no names, but my dad, I pour some hot water into washing up. Don't do it because it might not block your pipe, but it'll block somebody else’s. It’ll block the sewer.
You'll end up with these crazy fat bergs that we see. So for me, a really simple thing is pee paper poo down your toilet. Don't put grease or anything else down your drain that in itself. Will make a big difference because the, the network is not designed to cope with all these other things, and it's not designed to cope with the kind of population increase that we're seeing coming.
So the sector are trying to do engineering things, but those are the two really straightforward things you could do today that would genuinely kind of make a difference, I guess, really. It goes back to we need to strengthen community because we've moved to this, to this model, and I think we're so much worse off for it where we think as an individual rather than think of what the damage is to the wider community.
And I think if we went back to that community mindset, then you wouldn't do it. Because you wouldn't do it in case it affected. Yeah. Two doors down. I hope I'm not, I don't think I'm a cynic. I'm definitely still an optimist, but for me, I think where I've got to in my thinking is we've gotta make it the path of least resistance for people, though it's got to be the easy choice, isn't it?
Because for all of the altruistic people in the world like you, which is wonderful, Kate, lots of people won't think that they've got other things going on in the minds. This is not the most interesting or important thing, quite understandably so how do we make it the easiest? Or the lowest cost choice, or the best value choice or the normal drivers, rather than asking people to go over and above.
Cuz if it's complicated, you lose the sway, the people straight away. I think regionally speaking, let's talk about Yorkshire. We both live in Yorkshire. What's been done locally in terms of water sustainability in Yorkshire? So from what I, I don't, I don't work for Yorkshire Water, but I, um, I know lots of good people that work there and I live in Le so I know a bit about what's happening in Leeds.
There's loads of good stuff happening. There's always room for more. But I think one of the things I would say is leads as a city, actually we've got a climate commission and that's really interesting. Declared a climate emergency. Like many cities, having a climate commission with climate commissioners who are people from a cross section of the city and industry, but who are invested in what the region's doing is a really interesting, really important body to exist, really kind.
Not political but a place for thinking to happen. And then I guess if you add into that, there's some big challenges. So Hull is a really great example and wanna know a little bit about, because on Planet possible, we've talked about Hull in the Living with Water project a couple of times. You know, Hull is a really fascinating city on the East Coast in Yorkshire, a lot of Hull is below sea level.
And in 2007 it's, it's offered horrific flooding both from surface water and from flooding coming back in. And so they've been working. On this extraordinary project called Living with Water, which is all about exactly what you've talked about, connecting with communities. So Hull has got some challenges economically.
There are some areas of coal that are quite deprived, and actually the view from the project, as I understand it, is. You can't expect people to think about flood protection if they're thinking about food banks. So how do we grow community resilience and really help people so that then we can help them think about those other decisions that they need to make?
So they've been working with organizations like Time Bank in whole, where people donate time to help other people in the community. They've been working with other organizations to put rainwater harvesting tanks on roofs. They're like smart tanks. So basically they collect water. And then when a storm's coming, those tanks in advance of the storm empty so that they create extra capacity, if you like, mini reservoirs all around the city so that there's extra storage space.
So when you get high intensity rainfall, you are not having all of that going into the sewers at the same time. You're slowing the flow of water today. So doing all these really interesting things. They're working with kids, they're working with the university, so it's a very kind of connected approach.
They're working with other public bodies, you know, the environment agency and lead. Thought flood authorities and the the councils to really think as the whole of the region, how do we support the economic development of the city? How do we support the community resilience and also prevent flooding? And so for me, having an initiative like that, which is globally recognized in Yorkshire, is a real beacon of positivity really.
There's some great stuff happening in Yorkshire. I definitely feel that. So we've launched Yorkshire Sustainability Week, which will happen in July 3rd to the 7th of July, and the, the uptake and interest has just been brilliant, absolutely phenomenal. Way more than I ever thought possible, and it is very much just that people are ready.
For the conversation in Yorkshire and ready to celebrate the great work that they're doing and showcase it to the world and get people to actually engage. And I think you're absolutely right. You know, we're in conversation with the Climate Commission about how we can get them involved in the week, which is brilliant.
I'm so excited to see what comes from that. Lead city council was straight behind as the minute we came up with the idea. And absolutely we will. Brilliant. We'll make this happen with you. There's definitely an intention to make Yorkshire be seen on the national stage and the international stage as the place to be doing things within sustainable.
I mean, I'm a come into Yorkshire, I still, still sound like I'm not from there, but I've been there. I'm very, you know, lived there more of my life than I've not, and I, I, I share that pride and I think for me that adage, you can't be what you can't. So actually how do we make stuff visible? Yes. In Yorkshire, really great case studies, really great examples of, yeah, unusual partnerships or connections or how we brought new voices into the conversation or just doing things differently.
And that's what Yorkshire Sustainability Week, I think will be brilliant for is sparking those unexpected connections and giving real visibility to some of the great stuff that is happening, but might be happening in pockets. And the joy is in hearing all those conversations afterwards and, and, oh, I met so-and-so and they're doing this, and then I introduce them to, and now we're gonna go and try something together.
I mean, that will be amazing because people are so great when they get together. People are phenomenal when they get together and when they learn about what other people are doing and how they can help. And we are a very kind and generous nation. You know, we're definitely a kind and generous region, and we will.
Support people and we will help people to find the relevant individuals that they need to speak to to make their thing happen. And I think, you know, we touched on earlier about there's definitely a ch a sea change that we're hearing from youth the hell of more than we ever used to. And that's one of the things that we're definitely really keen to make happen within Y S W as well is, you know, youth are sitting alongside our act.
Spares on every single one of our panels. So we will have panel discussions again, much like the 17, they'll be focused on the UN sustainable development goals and with the view that somebody more intelligent than me wrote some very sensible goals to just follow them rather than try to create any new ones.
You know? So we're focusing on that, but we're making sure that that youth voice is represented and young people whose world we're ultimately building. Are there at the beginning of the conversations to say, this is what we need. Yeah. This is what we want. This is how we need to be able to live in the future.
Yeah. Having those conversations where all of the stuff that we. Take for granted, or we think, oh yeah, but that is the we've, we've thought about it and it's the only way to do it. Younger people come to that with that, like, yes, hang on a second. Why you don't realize you're old. Yeah. You never realize, I don't think I'm old.
I'd still class myself as younger, and then I look at my son and realize, no, no, I am knocking on a bit these days. And he asks all sorts of things that I just think, actually, it's a really good question. I don't really know why we do X or Y and that's for me, the joy of it. It's that fresh eyes, isn't it?
Yeah. Fresh eyes and that kind of confidence that you can do things differently. I just think the more of that, the better we need it. Absolutely. It's a perspective that only young people can bring. Yeah. Cause they're not beaten down by the Absolutely. Absolutely. That's been done this way for so long.
They're like, and what? Yeah, totally. Let's try again. Yeah. You know, which I think is great. I'm absolutely, I think that's brilliant. Let's do our best to actually answer the question. How do we work towards achieving goal number six of the UN's 17 sustainable development goals? The core here is to ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all.
Okay, Nikki, you are in charge here. I want one action point, but at every level. Let's start with globally. I think globally leaders. Crucially, major institutions and organizations, it's gotta go beyond government business, have gotta pick this up for there to be a real change. Yes. I think they need to make the link in their own minds between water and other major, what I would call drivers of change.
So the link between water and energy, the link between water and climate. The link between water and conflict. And actually I think. You know, wars will be fought over. Water wars will be fought because of water. We will see migration because of lack of availability. If you haven't got anything to drink, you're not gonna stay living there, you're gonna move, and that will inherently start to create all sorts of challenges.
So bleak as that may sound. There are huge opportunities there as well, but those big drivers of future, mm-hmm. Planetary change, climate energy conflict, are all completely interconnected with the availability of water. So for me, organizations and institutions, not paying lip service to water, but really recognizing how integral it is to solving some of those biggest challenges and also preventing some of those things coming to fruition would be really important.
So let's take that down a level then and we'll think about nationally. So this is a bit controversial, I should be very clear. Like yes, I'm a former president of CIWEM, which I'm very proud of. I have a role in the water sector, but this is my view, just to be very clear and not the view of anybody else.
I think we need mandatory water meters across the UK in every home where it's possible to install one, not for. But to understand consumption and associated with that should be a smart meter. Yes. I think a bit like you can't be what you can't see. If you can't measure it, you can't monitor it, you can't make decisions.
I think. Part of people's lack of connection with water is the only way most people know how much they've used is to get on their hands and knees if they can, and lift up a lid in the pavement outside the house and then, you know, get your torch in and get your finger on the dial on your meter, and try and work out what you've used once every three months or six months.
If you've not got a smart meter, you've got a smart meter, things are a bit better. But for me, there are so many homes that don't have meters. Therefore, we've got no idea how much water as individuals we're using. We make estimates about the whole, the amount of water we use as a country, understanding what we consume is really important.
And so mandatory water metering would be the thing that I would do if I could. Let's focus on regionally. I was reflecting on this in advance, and again, this is a very personal view and it's quite niche really, but I, I think one of the things that would be really important if our approach to planning as a region was really, really connected.
With our climate change ambitions and we thought about water as part of that. And I guess the reason I say that is what I'm experiencing from building my own home, it doesn't feel like when we think about new developments, that water is really considered. I spoke, had a, the real pleasure of talking to the right honorable John Gummer, Lord Deben, a couple of weeks ago for planet Possible.
And you know, he was talking about the challenge of home builders not being incentivized at all to think about things like water. I think if we could just think about. All of our future home building was really connected into the need to think about water as well as energy alongside things like mandatory water labeling that's coming.
That would make such a difference. So I just think at the moment it feels like planning water, energy, they're all kind of little silos and actually building new homes and building new businesses physically. The physicality of building those things is one place where we could. Bring things together, but there's just doesn't feel like there's the framework to do that yet.
Okay. So that's something for us to work on then let's create that framework. Yeah, that'd be perfect. Nikki. Just thinking about that global perspective, what do the world leaders need to be doing and what came out of the recent conference? Yes. I mean cop, I'm sure most people know, but just in case you don't copies conference at the parties and, and there are two cops, if you like, that have been interesting to people in this space recently.
We've had the Climate cop, so in 26, cop 26 was in Glasgow and we've had COP 27 more recently. And then there's also the Biodiversity Cop and we're at COP 15 for that. And uh, that's been a sort of two-parter. What they are is trying to get global agreement on big topics. I am not by any means a cop expert, but we've done some great episode, planet possible where we've talked.
The climate cop and the biodiversity cop. So most recently I had a lovely lady called Margarita Babier. She's a youth activist, so she works with the Arctic Angels, who are a really interesting organization. Definitely worth checking out. She's attended a couple of the climate cops now. It was fascinating hearing some of her reflections and one of the things that she said is that at the Climate Cop, they had a biodiversity day, but at the biodiversity.
They didn't have a climate day, and I thought that was really interesting. It's a really minor observation from, you know, I just said, oh, is there one of each? And she was like, oh, actually there wasn't. But I think for me, that that in itself is, it demonstrates you've got all the right people in the room talking about a topic, but not necessarily fostering those kind of connections and recognizing, you know, gosh, climate and biodiversity are about as wedded as you can possibly get, and yet these massive events that they haven't necessarily.
Just thought about the links and I recently interviewed the right Honorable John Gummer, Lord Deben, who is the chair of the Climate Change Committee, and he is, he's extraordinary, like he, you listen to nothing else from planet Possible, go listen to that episode. Honestly, he's just, phenomenal. So full of energy and passion and so knowledgeable.
Obviously the Climate Change Committee have been, have been hugely involved in, in writing kind of the government view in advance of these cops. One of the things that really struck me from his reflections is there's insufficient action. Um, if you go back and you read the Climate Change Committee reports of the last five or six years, just read the forwards and each of them is a call to action.
The time to act is. I think I'm almost quoting from most of them and there's still insufficient action. There's lots of warm words. But, um, when, when we think about the future impact on the way we live our daily lives of things like climate change, The nature crisis, the lack of biodiversity. It's not just like a, oh, if you wanna go out for a walk, things might not look as nice or you might not hear as much birds on.
It will impact our food production. It will impact daily life. It will impact the levels of migration that we're seeing from all sorts of parts of the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-immigration by any stretch, but actually just cramming any more people into smaller spaces will always create conflict and tension wherever that happens in the world.
And. Nobody wants to move unless it's a choice. You don't wanna be forced to migrate, do you? So for me, things like conflict and food production and migration are massive potential impacts of not getting these decisions right and not being bold enough and not acting. So certainly what I heard from from Margarita and from Lord Deben were quite sobering reminders that it's great that we have these get togethers and there definitely is action, don't get me wrong, but it's not bold enough.
It's not fast enough, but it's very, very difficult to. International agreement on some of these things, it's, it's really important that we keep holding people's feet to the fire on them. I think we aren't moving fast enough, and I think that's one of the things that we, we definitely, we need to see everybody who has a skillset set, adapting their skillset to support this industry, to make things go at a faster pace.
Because otherwise we're gonna be at 2030 before you know it, and then we're gonna be at 2050 before you know it, and. We've run out of time. It's individually thinking, I can do something. What does that look like? It doesn't need to make life more difficult, but I just need to be mindful of it a little bit more mindful and making some slightly better choices that might be.
As small as turning the tap off when you brush your teeth, if you don't do it already, it's tiny, tiny things. Thinking a bit more about where you are buying things from, maybe buying less fast fashion, it doesn't need to just be about water. There's loads of things that you think about the amount of water that's used in producing clothes.
It's huge. The very first episode of Plant Possible. Somebody talk to me about a hair shirt. Kate, have you ever heard of a hair shirt? No. Great. That makes me feel better, right? But the point being you don't have to wear a shirt made of hair just to be a good, you know, it doesn't need to be itchy and uncomfortable to be environmentally sound.
You can just make better choices. And I think for me, how do we get our manufacturers to make it easy for people to make those better choices? Cuz the products are better and they're affordable and they're available and you know, it's not just. The kind of crazy people like me who wanna build low, low carbon and low water footprint homes.
There's all sorts of things that every single person listening can do right now when they stop listening, that will make a difference. You don't have to be attending a cop. To make a difference to the world. One of the things that I made a pact to myself I would do this year was, I love clothes. I'm really into fashion.
I made a pack. I wouldn't buy anything from a fast fashion brand ever again. Good for you. Brilliant. So at the beginning of this year, I enacted that pack. I was like, right, that's it. I'm not gonna buy another thing. So what I've been doing is buying off vinted. Little shout out for, for vinted here. It's phenomenal.
And the little bargain hunter in. Oh my God. I'm like getting things for a fiver and I'm like, yes, thank you. Yeah, very much. That's great. Like it means that I'm gonna wear it for, for years cuz I always like keep my clothes forever and I only ever buy certain brands so I know the quality is, you know, of a high caliber, et cetera, et cetera.
But I'm not even buying those on the high street anymore. I'm buying them straight off tinted. So 10 outta 10 recommends good for you. But that's exactly it. Make it easy. Make it chime to whatever lever you want. So if that's, you know, good price, perfect. If it's really easy to do it on your phone, whatever it might be, let's remove the inertia.
Yeah, let's, and that's where we need new voices, new entrepreneurs, creatives, coming into the sector and recognizing actually this is the space that you can be, if you wanna make some really important. Changes for the planet and use your skills at the same time. It doesn't need to be, you don't need to be working in, you know, so digital is a perfect opportunity to do stuff for, for the environment sector.
It's perfect. There are all sorts of things we can do. How do we reduce the inertia? How do we make it easy for people to make good choices? And what are the enablers? It's all of those other skills, isn't it, that we need to talk about. So you don't need to be a civil engineer though, by all means. There's some very cool civil engineers out there, but you don't need to be a civil engineer or somebody attending COP to make a difference to the planet far.
Right. Final question is always an individual level. Yeah. So it stop and start. If you can ask everyone listening to stop doing one thing and start doing one thing right now from today, that will make a difference, what's that gonna be? All right. The stop is really easy. Please, even if you only do it occasionally, please stop using your toilet.
Please love you Lou. Don't put anything except three peas, pee paper poo, that's all that should get on your toilet. And then start, what can we start doing? Well look, there's two. One is a kind of general thing and then the other is a bit more specific. The the general one is start valuing water. Just start thinking about it a little bit more, being a bit mi more mindful of it and see whether that helps you make different decisions.
So I know that's not quite as tangible, but I do think we need to start doing that. But a very practical one. If people fancy doing something at home with a little bit of diy, but not too much. Disconnect your downpipe. If you really wanna do something interesting, take the downpipes off your gutters if you're able to.
And put it into a leaky water. But, and what a leaky water but does is you can use the water with the garden if you've got one. And that's brilliant. But if you, even if you haven't got a garden, that's absolutely fine as long as you've got somewhere you can connect a water, but to your downpipe. And then what they'll do is they'll slowly release water back into the system, either into your garden or you can connect them into your drain.
But they release water slowly. And what that means is you're not putting stuff into the drains. That doesn't need to be there. We don't need rainwater to go into our drainage system. We can absolutely deal with that more locally. So if you can disconnect your downpipe, that would be my thing to start doing.
Ooh, very interesting. Okay. Lovely. Right. That's a brilliant way to end. Nikki, thank you so much. Thank you for being my first, have a guest. My absolute pleasure. A final plug for planet possible. Go on. Tell us where you can, uh, well you can find planet possible on all your major podcast players or planet possible.eco.
Yeah. A few fancy, amazing guests talking about everything that's water and environment related. Then yeah, come check us out and thank you so much for inviting me on Kate. It's been a real, a total joy for me sitting in front of this beautiful lock in Scotland. Talking about water, I could think of very little better that I'd want to do.
So yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much Trevor on for listening to the 17. We really appreciate your support. We're a new podcast looking to grow, so please hit the subscribe button on your podcast provider and please do leave as a review and tell your friends about us. Remember, if you want to know more about Yorkshire Sustainability Week in July, you can go to Yorkshire sustainability week.com.
On there you can get tickets for the conference, which will feature keynote speeches from the likes of Ariba Hammed, who is the exec director at Greenpeace, right through to the founder of Green and Black's Chocolate, Joe Farley. That's all for now. We'll be back on the 17th of May with episode two of the 17th.