Andrew Ostcliffe (Oxfam) & Josie Warden (Volans) on how global production and consumption need to change.
UN Sustainable Development Goal Number 12 - Responsible Production and Consumption
Episode 4 of 'The 17' podcast focuses on UN Sustainable Development Goal 12. It explores how our way of living - especially in the Western world - puts a massive and unsustainable strain on the planet's natural resources. It also discusses what changes in production and consumption (at all levels from individual to global) can pivot us toward progress. The task is huge. According to the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs, the current state of affairs looks like this:
Goal 12 raises an important question: Is it possible to produce and consume responsibly when the majority of the world's companies are designed to prioritise profit? If making people want and consume more is profitable, how can we move toward sustainability?
Experts with retail experience and fashion industry insights
Andrew Ostcliffe is Head of E-commerce & Retail Innovation for Oxfam and has shaped their strategy aimed at reducing waste by being a conduit for both re-use and recycling. He argues for more innovative uses of materials that are beyond re-use (such as Oxfam inventing a new way to turn waste textiles into a new hard material than be used in shop-fitting, displays and sign-making). But Andrew's main appeal is to us consumers and how we need to rediscover the art of patience:
“Do you really need your new purchase tomorrow morning? Could you wait a little longer? If you can, you help the climate by affecting transportation logistics… and perhaps you start to fight that "quicker, bigger, faster, more” mindset that fuels over-consumption.” - Andrew Ostcliffe, Oxfam
Addressing the goal directly
Each episode of 'The 17' ends with our influential expert guests suggesting practical actions at individual, regional, national and global levels to help move the planet toward meeting the UN Sustainable Development goal in question.
Josie Warden, who explores regeneration for business consultancy Volans, thinks that individually we should start to embrace buying pre-loved clothes as a way of expressing our unique identity. Choosing unique second-hand items displays our taste in a more effective way than buying fast fashion.
She also proposes that at a global level we take the opportunity to regulate high consumption industries. She makes the point that if the onus is on companies to change themselves it's hard to be the first-mover and be at a competitive disadvantage.
Yorkshire's ambition to lead on Sustainability
Both Andrew and Josie point out that Yorkshire's textile heritage can help make the region a leader in making the fashion industry more sustainable. There is expertise and legacy skills that can be harnessed, plus local distinctive sustainable production that can be encouraged and promoted more.
This episode of 'The 17' was recorded at the first ever Yorkshire Sustainability Week which took place earlier in July 2023.. Go to www.yorkshiresustainabilityweek.com to learn more about the impact of this new event.
Be informed, take action and spread the word
'The 17' is a podcast dedicated to sustainability. It is structured around the UN’s 17 Sustainable Development goals. They represent, in essence, a plan to protect the future of the planet. We all need to know what they are, take reasonable positive actions in our own lives to help... and spread the word.
This new sustainability podcast has made quite an impact. Episode 1 was a hit - hitting Number 2 in the UK Apple Podcasts ‘Earth Sciences’ chart - an amazing result for a brand new podcast.. A new episode of ‘The 17’ is released on the 17th of each month and each episode is themed around a different one of the UN’s seventeen Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).
Follow 'The 17' to make sure you are informed and hear from influential experts about what actions to take to play your part in building a sustainable future. Listen every month, subscribe, leave reviews and tell your friends.
Resources
Shop sustainably with Oxfam here: https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk
Discover what Volans do and why sustainability is at the heart of their values here: https://volans.com
Discover the UN's 17 Sustainable Development Goals: https://sdgs.un.org/goals
Check out the highlights from Yorkshire Sustainability week here:
https://www.yorkshiresustainabilityweek.com/
Welcome to The17. This is a podcast dedicated to sustainability. It's structured around the UN's 17 Sustainable Development Goals. They represent, in essence, a plan to protect the planet. I'm Kate Hutchinson and I'm the founder of Yorkshire Sustainability Week and my goal is to help the UK's regions to play their part in delivering a sustainable future.
Each episode of The17 is themed around a different one of the UN's 17 Sustainable Development Goals. A new episode drops on the 17th of each month and each time I'll be joined by a new guest who has real expertise and influence related to one of those UN goals. We will explain and analyze the goal itself, look at the current situation and discuss what actions we can take at an individual, regional and even global level to make progress.
This episode we're tackling goal 12 which is responsible consumption and production. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns. Our guest this episode. have expertise in sustainable production, especially in the fields of textiles and e commerce. Andrew Roscliffe, who is head of e commerce and retail innovation at Oxfam.
Welcome Andy. Thank you. And Josie Warden, who is an advisor on regenerative business at Volans. Hello. Thank you Josie for joining us. So Andy, I want to get straight into talking to you about, you know, where we're at. How's the explosion of e commerce in the recent decades affected the environment?
In terms of consumerism and consumption massively, we're at a point now where you are a click away from an item that you And I would almost say not necessarily need.
There's a real race in terms of how quickly can I get what I want. There are delivery companies now that will deliver in the hour. Next day used to be the winning auction really on, on parcel delivery. But I think really in terms of that, I want versus I need, it's had a massive impact. And when you look at the spectrum of what's available within an hour, There's not many things that you can't get almost instantly at the moment.
So Josie, tell me why is responsible consumption and production particularly difficult with clothing?
So fashion is an enormous global industry in terms of the scale of production, but also where it happens around the world. So it's globalized now. So production is happening in one country, consumption in another, or maybe production in multiple countries.
So it's really hard to understand. Exactly how all these things connect, which makes it very hard for kind of consumers to see that. But it also means that the kind of impacts are very dissociated from the products themselves. So we might consume something here and we're not seeing where the impacts are in terms of the pollution on soil or the labor rights within supply chains.
So it's very, it's very dissociated, and it's also enabled the industry to act in a way which is very segregated. So brands often don't own their production within fashion, which has enabled them to be able to kind of externalize those impacts. More recently, we've tried to get them to take more account of that, but I think that kind of...
fragmented, complex, globalised supply chain makes it very, very difficult to kind of, to tackle both the kind of production and consumption side of fashion.
So we're going to dive into the UN Sustainability Goal Number 12, Responsible Consumption and Production, Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Here are some facts about the current situation. According to the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs, unsustainable production and consumption are the root causes of three global crises, climate change, Biodiversity loss and pollution. Our reliance on natural resources is increasing up 65% from 2000 to 2019.
There are problems in multiple industries. For example, 17% of the world's food is wasted. Safe recycling of electronic waste can be as low as 1. 2% in parts of the world. Andy, tell me, how big is the global challenge here in terms of production and consumption in general? It really is testing for organisations to try and meet, I think, what is changing legislation that you, there is legislation required in order to get control of the manufacturing process, supply chain process.
I do believe that the more that we see where we have transparency on how a product is manufactured or how a product is transported to its location, the better because it then gives consumers a choice in terms of. If they shop with that particular brand, or if they look for a more ethical, sustainable alternative.
Oxfam are very careful in terms of the suppliers that we choose to work with. We have a very detailed ethical framework that goes beyond any B Corp certification. Where we, we do score. Uh, producers who work with us, whether it be Fairtrade tea, coffee, chocolate, or other items. And we work with that organization to actually climb them up the ladder in terms of sustainability, self awareness, and their production process.
So they can become a level 5 producer to supply Oxfam. And therefore, We present those products to our customers out on the high street and in the shops and give them the choice of being able to have an alternative product, whether it be tea, coffee, chocolate or other consumable items.
I love Oxfam and I, I'm a big fan.
I made a commitment to myself from January actually this year that I will not buy first hand from any fashion brand at all. It's just that shift in behaviors, isn't it? We have so many beautiful clothes that have never been worn or have only been worn a handful of times and are still in perfect condition.
I want you to tell us Andy a bit more about the recent announcement that you've made at Oxfam because I think There's two sides to this, isn't there? Because we, we have not just a problem in terms of that we are producing still so much, but there's also so much waste in what we're producing. And I know that you created a really impressive initiative that you've just launched, that is all about, you know, taking waste and turning it into a product.
We generate an awful lot of donated clothing. Thankfully, most of it can be, uh, resold, uh, repurposed, uh, recycled, even repaired, some of the projects that we have ongoing at the moment with some of the communities and some of the colleges and universities that we work with. But there will be some times where we have a donation and maybe it's come from one of our donation bins and the clothing is just too worn or it's soiled and you just can't do anything with it.
We've developed a process with a UK manufacturer of being able to take either an accessory, a shoe, a garment, a textile, and we're able to produce a product. After it's been through a process, this product can be made into shop fixtures and fittings. It can also be made into flooring and brick cladding and house signs.
So as we go down this route of opening some super stores for Oxfam, a lot of the fixtures and fittings within those stores hopefully we would like to make from recycled clothing.
That's exciting, Oxfam super stores, I've not heard about that before. Is that what's coming?
We've had a test superstore in Oxford now for a couple of years.
Uniquely, it has a drive thru donation station, so it attracts 800 donations each week. It also has a cafe inside, and you can find a whole range of donated, pre loved, and some of our Sourced by Oxford product range in there as well. There's another 12 of those coming.
So, Josie, tell us your thoughts on the future of retail.
So I think fashion is really interesting because it's sometimes been called the kind of favourite child of capitalism because it's so predicated on creating more and more wants in people and there's kind of an endless supply of things that people can want as opposed to necessarily need. Obviously, we have a kind of basic need for clothing and that's what I guess retail and fashion brands have been focusing on.
How can you get people to want more and more and as you were saying earlier, at like faster speed as well. But I think we're really seeing I guess it's maybe a sort of split in what's happening around retail. There's potentially the kind of really super fast online, get it next day, next hour, high volume, still very mass production, people who are not investing necessarily in bricks and mortar retail, but who are trying to take everything online as a way of kind of cutting costs and being able to produce things at a lower, a lower cost.
And then there's the other side of people who are looking at, actually, there's something amazing about shopping, the experience of shopping, of being in a high street, of being in a shop, of being able to touch things and try things on, maybe almost that sort of sensory experience of shopping. And I think there's a growing number of brands that are looking at how they can create.
Spaces which are experiences and not just somewhere to actually buy something straight away. And that comes back to also creating kind of consumer loyalty, consumers buying into an understanding of a brand's kind of purpose in the world. I think particularly brands who are really looking at their ethical and sustainable practices to be able to create spaces where people can kind of see what they're doing around their social purpose, how they're supporting communities.
All of those things can really come to life in a store. So I think we are seeing this quite interesting space. And coming back to high streets, high streets which are really going through a big change. There's a lot of kind of maybe empty stores, but it might be interesting in a few years to see how that, how that really shifts.
So Andy, what is going well and not so well? in the UK when it comes to the high street.
There are a lot of organisations, not just in the charity sector, who now have what we would class as omni channel or a blended offer. So you can have the experience, as Josie's described, in store where you can touch and you can feel something.
Or if you've got a particularly busy lifestyle or you're from a particular demographic and online shopping is what you do, then equally you can shop online to your heart's content. Massive changes. in terms of technology from some of the really big retailers. Returns are very costly for, uh, online retailers.
And in fact, I had a meeting not so long ago with one particular high street fashion who admitted that their physical stores, uh, uh, 70% of the items that they sold would come back. I did ask them if they thought that was a problem. And the response was, no, because when they do come back, they'll buy something else.
But it almost appeared to be items in flux, or continual transit of going out the door and then coming back in the door. And I did question that, but that's their business model. The technology that's being deployed now... is to try and get that look and feel of what the physical experience is, but from a digital perspective.
So even if you're shopping online, what's this going to look like? How's it going to... What's the look? What's the cut? What's the feel? What's the style? And the technology that's being deployed is fantastic. I also believe with the introduction of... AI that will start to see a lot more of those developments too, where high street retailers may be missing out on what has been that traditional footfall, uh, from that digital perspective.
As Josie has described, it's a lower cost operation model. People shop 24 seven. I think it will be very interesting in what technology can bring to us in terms of a shopping experience.
Do you think that there will be a change in the, in our shopping habits? Do you think people will? Go to consume less because ultimately the way I look at this.
I think we ultimately can't consume that we've consumed in the last 30 50 years. How do we change that mindset into believing that actually we don't need to consume to this level Josie?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the biggest question like we we know that we're using more resources Than our planet can sustain, particularly us in the West with a very, very high impact.
And I think the uk, in fact, out of Europe, has the highest consumption of fashion. So it's also particularly a UK problem in this sense. And I think we have to be willing to talk more about. and reducing consumption. It can be very difficult conversation to have because it's about changing our, our mindsets around what good looks like, what a good life is.
But actually people are doing that already. And we saw even with, obviously there were huge negative impacts on the pandemic, but also people started thinking more about what do I want from my life? And actually is having more stuff. Once you have enough, having more stuff, is that making me happier? Maybe it's not, maybe it's the kind of social connections.
So actually I think. Interesting with the SDG around consumption, a lot of maybe the ways of tackling it come from outside the fashion industry. It might come from thinking about different education differently, um, how people can engage in their community differently, um, how people can get value from work differently, and it's maybe those kind of things that can also change us.
Change our fashion consumption rather than it just being a kind of you need to consume more message, which is very hard to hear How can we create cities and ways of living and communities that want that make people want to engage with life differently? And so I think there's a lot of opportunity for for bringing different sort of areas into this conversation as well
I think consumers are being faced with a really difficult challenge at the moment, Kate.
If you look at one of the German discounters, you can buy a full set of school uniform for 5. Now, to a family who are in a cost of living crisis, that can be very appealing, and the cost of that school uniform would... potentially override the ethics of where it's been produced and how it's arrived in the UK.
But I think where we can see what's been demonstrated from other Parts of the community is where we're looking at garments now, and it may have a 40 or 50 pound price tag It may be a quality item but can the item be worn for three or four times before them being resold across some of the platforms such as eBay depop or vintage and maybe that's now just a five pound item because you're managing to sell it for a reasonable sum after you've We've worn it just a few times.
So I think there's some real challenges facing individuals in terms of where they make their purchases and how they make their purchases.
I think it's also important to think about consumption. It's not that we're all consuming the same. Even within kind of a Western country like the UK, there are some people who are kind of super consumers.
And I think that's particularly true for fashion. You get some people who are buying huge amounts and others who will be struggling to access things. And I think we need to be a bit more sort of nuanced about that conversation too. And say of course there will always be need for people to meet their... I guess their needs, a need for things, but also there are some people who maybe could be reducing it and actually it's not going to affect their quality of life.
Um, and finding ways to kind of nuance that conversation feels important.
Attitudes have really changed now in terms of shopping. It's really cool. to buy something pre loved. You'll often find in conversations, Oh, I quite like your jacket. Oh, where did you get those trousers from? Oh, lovely dress. And the person can turn around and say, Oh, I got that from my local charity shop.
And you get a wow reaction, whereas maybe a few years ago, you may have had a different reaction. Attitudes have certainly changed now in terms of that unique find, those gem seekers, bargain hunters. There's a real mix of individuals who are shopping pre loved.
You know, we engage with our world, we want to consume things, we want to change things, we want to develop things.
That is what it means to be human, and that's what builds culture and identity, and that's what makes fashion and clothing exciting, and it's been the thing that has, you know, come out in all cultures across all ages, the idea of clothing can express something about what you believe in. And I think, almost feel like, when we went to the kind of mass, It's mass fashion, which really has only been around for half a century, less than really.
Some of that got lost. Yes, you can kind of, you're buying into something, but there's not, you're almost not engaging in it in the same way. Whereas if you look, if you're looking for something through, you know, through Rails of Oxfam and you find something, that's also expressing your identity in a different way.
Whereas if you go and buy something that's, there are 20 of them in Zara, yeah, it's just not quite the same thing. And I think there's something about that authenticity that people recognize and that we're now looking for something different. Yeah. Absolutely. In what we're consuming and I think if we can tap into that but not kind of then now go down the route of now and now we need more and more and more of that stuff, but find ways to kind of build on that excitement that people have, whether it's through vintage shopping or repairing or designing, creating things yourself, I think that can be a way of people getting excited about this as opposed to it feeling like you're being told to not do something.
So that brings me on brilliantly to regionally, what are you seeing that is progress in your local area?
From a donation perspective, we have seen a significant increase in the number of donations that have been made through our physical locations. Although difficult to measure regionally, Oxfam also has a post back service as well.
So, maybe you are an individual who's got... Quite a few donations, and trying to walk through the high street with all your boxes and your bags that you want to donate in shop or in store can be quite difficult. We offer a service where you can either request a donation bag, fully recyclable of course, or a label that you want to stick on a box.
And you can send that to Oxfam through the click and collect or click and drop. And we've seen a phenomenal amount of donations. Currently receiving in one location between two and a half to three tons of donations per week. But as I say, that's, that's hard to measure from a regional perspective. But when you then look at the amount of trade, uh, that we transact, and when we transact that trade through the physical network, you can see an awful lot of individuals engaging with the brand from donation and purchase as well.
What about you, Jaycee? What are you seeing within your region?
I think the regional question is so important because fashion has really lost that, I think, in recent decades. Whereas if you think about in the past, Leeds, or this, you know, Yorkshire particularly, it was regional where the cloth was coming from, how it was being made, and even like the kind of individual identity of national dress and clothing is regional.
But at the moment we haven't really been having that conversation. I think it's really important that we bring it back because I think what this needs to look like in different areas. Could be very different. So if you think about this region, there's a huge potential to draw on kind of what's been happening.
Previously, through the brands, through the factories, the mills that are based here and the skill sets that are still here to create a different future. So I think if you look in, even within Leeds, there's the Future Fashion Factory, we're looking at digital and advanced technologies. There are brands who are looking at different kinds of digital technologies in terms of 3D prototyping, using AI to kind of increase efficiency.
So there's really exciting innovation in the kind of digital side, but there's also people who are looking at regenerative agriculture and how do we look at using wool differently and tie that to our landscape. I think it's a bit more in the regional place that this is actually going to get really exciting because it's going to be about the culture, the people, the landscape and what can happen in this place.
So I think Yorkshire particularly is really exciting and thinking about. You know, it led the way in the past, how can it now be the future and a region that's the future for, for fashion?
So is it even possible to have responsible production and consumption when the vast majority of businesses have profit as their main motivator, Andy?
I absolutely think there is. And from a fair trade perspective, where you can have that level of responsibility from growing the product. Harvesting the product, reinvesting in the community and supporting the community, bringing that product into a consumer marketplace where you can promote the ethics and standards that have been adhered to in terms of production and shipping.
Absolutely, I think there is a mindset of how Shoppers now, with the choice that they have, can make a real impact in terms of how they do ultimately support those producer relationships and communities. Definitely yes.
Right, we are going to do our best to actually answer the question now. How do we work towards achieving goal number 12 of the UN's 17 Sustainable Development Goals?
Responsible production and consumption. You two are in charge here. I want one action point from each of you at every level please. We're going to start with globally and I'm going to go to you Josie.
This might sound like a boring answer but I think particularly thinking about fashion but also for other industries I think regulation is absolutely essential in this point.
There are lots of businesses who are wanting to make changes but without a kind of level playing field it's very hard to be the first mover. Fashion particularly has been quite self regulating in recent years and I think Actually, the evidence is it's not making enough progress by doing that. So I think we need to see that happening.
And because it's a global industry, you have to look at where production's happening, where retail's happening, and that means there's got to be more effort around regulation at a global level.
From a clothing and textile perspective, our friends over in Europe recently made some really proactive moves in terms of being able to You would almost class it as track and trace product to its origin and the content of that piece of clothing of what it's made from as well.
I think that's a really good start. But I also think in terms of consumers being more aware of how you're shopping and where your product is coming from will have the impact. It's the customer ultimately that votes with their wallet who can make a bigger difference.
Okay, give me a national perspective, josie.
A conversation about what it means to have a good life, and then to invest in things regionally to be able to change that. So at the moment, fashion, a lot of consumption falls between Kind of policy areas. It's not necessarily education. Not so just trade And I think that could be so much happening at a regional and national level in the UK if we kind of opened up Kind of imagining what could the future look like how could we have a different way of doing this in the UK and knitting together?
and providing the infrastructure funding but also skills to support all of these new innovations to really So I think having something at that national level for particularly fashion and textiles would be really exciting.
If you look at the type of student who we attract into our organisation and they're studying fashion or textile, it's starting with a younger generation in terms of What is actually the art of the possible?
What can I make or produce or recycle or resell using pieces of clothing that have been worn previously? And influencers play a massive part in terms of... being able to promote that activity and that story. I think legislation is a, is a really big stick. That's not to say that it's not required in, in some elements.
But I really do think that consumer behavior will have more of a positive impact on how consumers interact with the marketplace and product.
Regionally, Andy, I'm going to go straight to you.
We have fantastic campaigns that we deliver regionally. Fortunately, earlier this year we were able to kick off London Fashion Week with A list celebrities, marketplaces such as eBay, and really promote the look and the feel of what, uh, pre loved fashion looks like, so whilst we have this phenomenal place regionally that we operate from that can sustain our shops with different styles of fashion, uh, and a selection and ranges of products, I very much feel that Yorkshire is engaged through our shop network and through the activity that you see online around sustainable shopping.
Yeah, I think similarly making visible what's already here, so that people know, because I think that's something you sort of realise is that people don't know necessarily about all the different things that are happening in a place. But I also, a plug for the conversations around economics and local places, so the sort of donut economics that Kate Raworth places around.
Actually, how do you have those conversations with communities, so that it's not just talking about one part of their life. But actually, what is the role of this place in kind of shaping a better future for us, but also for the wider community? And I think it does come down to those kind of economic conversations that you don't necessarily have as a citizen unless there are spaces for them.
And I think there are some really exciting things happening in those spaces.
Finally, we talk about individuals. So we always end this podcast with two questions. If you could ask everyone listening to stop doing one thing today and start doing one thing today, what would that be?
Do you really need? The item tomorrow morning be a really key question for me, and if you could stop doing that, that would have a positive impact in terms of both climate from that transportation and logistics perspective, but it might just slow down that appetite for it.
Thank you. Better, newer, faster, next.
I really like that. I think that sense of, we get so used to feeling like you have to have something now, because if you don't, it's not going to be there. But actually sometimes when it's not there again, you don't mind. And taking some time, I think that's something that you, it's a kind of way of pushing back against this, of saying actually I'm not going to make you, let you force me into a decision by all your flashing signs on your website.
I'm going to take a moment and really think about whether this is something that I need to have and does it fit in with other things in my wardrobe or in my house or in my life? Do I, is there really a need for that?
The other point I would make, Kate, is try and overcome FOMO. Fear of missing out. Really?
Okay, it might only be there on a Thursday and a Sunday in one retailer's perspective, but is it? It's only really there on a Thursday and a Sunday. And, uh, the psychology of shopping is really geared to get you to make a purchasing decision there and then. Try and overcome FOMO. Realize what FOMO is and how it affects you.
And I think that'll have a, a more relaxing effect on your shopping style when you're out and about.
Thank you so much, Andy and Josie, for joining us on The Seventeen. It's been a true pleasure. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to The Seventeen. We really appreciate your support.
We're a new podcast looking to grow, so please hit the subscribe button on your podcast provider, and please do leave us a review and tell all of your friends about us too. Thank you for joining us.